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I am not sure this has been asked here before. What I'm curious about is what particles get replaced by でも in its hedging usage ("or something") and what can occur alongside it and in what order?

It seems は, が, and を are always replaced. (I can't think of a context with を in such a position but if it ever was, I'd imagine it'd also get replaced):

ひまなら助詞の勉強でもしたら？ (source)

コーヒーでも、どうですか？ (ibid.)

テレビでも見てちょうだい (ibid.)

But で seems necessary?

舞台袖ででも大人しくして (source)

The most confusing is に which I'm not sure should come before or after でも or even when it can be dropped.

旅行にでも行きますか (source)

愛車で海でもに行く？ (source) (this seems much less common?)

私は最近東京にきた田舎者なのですが、ひとりカラオケが好きで東京でも行こうと思っています。 (source)

And what about other particles: しか、とか、など、か、から、と、まで etc.?

み～んな同じ映画だとでも言うつもりかい (source)

So the quotative と comes before でも. What about 格助詞のと?

友達とでも行こう (source)

Should we assume all other particles behave similarly: comes before でも?

aguijonazo
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Eddie Kal
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1 Answers1

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I think it is independent from でも whether a particle can be omitted.

ひまなら助詞の勉強したら？

コーヒー、どうですか？

テレビ見てちょうだい

are all fine while

舞台袖大人しくして

is not. So 舞台袖ででも cannot have で omitted.

でも comes after a particle.

  • 海でもに is not grammatical (maybe rarely possible colloquially).
  • 旅行行きますか is fine, so 旅行にでも and 旅行でも both work.
  • 東京でも行こう is a different usage. It is で + も: also in Tokyo
  • 友達行こう is not possible, so 友達とでも行こう is the only possibility.
sundowner
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  • So without も, 東京で行こう? What does it mean? – Eddie Kal May 11 '22 at 12:28
  • @EddieKal The speaker arrived in Tokyo, saying s/he will go to Karaoke in Tokyo as well (as in hometown) = 東京でも（カラオケに）行こうと思っています. – sundowner May 11 '22 at 13:13
  • I see. I feel like _place_ でも行く・行こう・行かない is very common. Should they all be parsed as で+も? Judging by its meaning in those contexts, でも does seem like a hedge to me ("or something") though: [じゃあ、新宿でも行きませんか？ふらふらしたり](https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5123bp/20/)/ [海でも行こうか](https://www.uta-net.com/song/51816/) Should I understand all of them as で+も? But would that suggest we have to think of these sentences as having words of action omitted? – Eddie Kal May 11 '22 at 20:57
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    @EddieKal Those two are the hedge, or giving a concrete example for places to go. So they are not で+も. I'd say the 東京でも行こう in question is a bit special case, but it should be clear that the speaker is already in Tokyo and 東京でも行こう doesn't make sense. For comparison, the following is the でも (not で+も) usage: 私は最近田舎に引っ越したのですが、週末は東京でも行こうと思います. I think this ambiguity happens only for names of places(city, country etc.) + でも: 海でも行こう should be almost always でも and not で＋も. – sundowner May 11 '22 at 22:36
  • Okay that really helps clear things up. Thanks!! So tying this back to my original confusion about particles: what's the difference between 海でも行こう and 海にでも行こう? And when can に be dropped? To be honest, when I first heard someone use this construct with me (several years back), it sounded so wrong to me because I just wanted に to be there preceding でも. I am still not clear why and when に can be dropped and what the semantic difference might be. Would you mind updating your answer to address this? – Eddie Kal May 12 '22 at 01:27
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    @EddieKal As I mentioned in the answer, it is more about omission of particles in general (see [this](https://cotohajime.net/2020/10/12/omit-particles/) for example). It might depend how you say it, but 海行こう and 海に行こう both mean 'let's go to to the sea'. Inserting でも makes it sound 'let's go out, to the sea perhaps?'. To me, both are identical in meaning. – sundowner May 12 '22 at 02:42
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    [This](http://hayato55.com/article/185553913.html) says したがって、助詞「に」の省略は動詞との格関係が強く省略しても意味の差異が生じない「行く」「入る」などに付随する着点や方向を示す用法に限られていると言えそうである。 – sundowner May 12 '22 at 02:43