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There are many strategies towards the minimization of the suffering of nonhuman animals; e.g., raising awareness, pressuring the legislative system into developing protective measures, using economic means to force big food companies into vegan/vegetarian options and propaganda, etc.

One particular strategy I've been pondering about lately is the 'raising awareness' strategy. Even though we have many great vegan advocators (such as Earthling Ed, Alex O'Connor, and Peter Singer), loads of well-educated people won't even bother entering the moral arena to argue for their point of view. Asking people to reconsider their entire diet is a really hard thing to do after all. Thus, I've started considering certification programs as a nice gateway for these people who won't be reached by 'the vegan dialogue' to contribute for the minimization of suffering. The argumentation is far less complicated and the outcomes look great as an intermediate step. That is, I hope they will eventually be brought to think about the ways in which they help protect the animals. If they have some notions of economy and stumble across the right figures, they might naturally develop the wish for being vegans.

However, this all leaves me wandering: are these organizations (specially Certified Humane) requiring enough? Furthermore, are they monitoring their requirements enough so as to guarantee that most of what is being asked is being followed?

If the answer to either of these questions is No, how can we, both as consumers and citizens, pressure them into doing it right?

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    Welcome to the site! This could be an interesting point of discussion, but I think it's too opinion-based and open-ended to be [properly answerable](https://vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/help/dont-ask) in the Stack Exchange format. – Rand al'Thor Jul 30 '21 at 10:55
  • @Randal'Thor I read the link and it seems to me that my question is a subjective but constructive question that will eventually be searched for and won't be found if not for here. I'm glad to accept edits so as to polish it and make it more constructive. – Alek Fröhlich Jul 30 '21 at 12:49
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    I've written a blog post on why I don't think it's a good strategy, I think you'll find it interesting: https://veganconclusion.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/why-ethical-omnivorism-is-not-the-solution/ – Alex Hall Aug 02 '21 at 22:18
  • @AlexHall that's awesome... If you would perhaps consider writing a summary of the main points of your argument there in a post here (or just reproduce it all - it's less than the character limit (see section 6 of the [Terms of Service](https://stackoverflow.com/legal/terms-of-service) for licensing stuff)) I think it would be a great answer. – Zanna Aug 03 '21 at 16:32
  • @AlexHall Nice blog; I do share your point of view in many things, but not all. I'll try to address these discordances in the comments. – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 21:22
  • 1) I don't think any one thing is \textbf{The Solution} to the problem of factory farms. Yes, going vegan is the most effective choice for many reasons, such as (a) vegans avoid all forms of animal suffering and, thus, incur less suffering than any other lifestyle; and (b) most vegans are also activists, which means they help to raise awareness and inspire change. However, as I said and I think you agree, many people won't bother entering in the discussion of veganism. – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 21:33
  • Why is that? Because veganism is a complex and radical idea for these people. In a rational world, it shouldn't be; specially since the claim is so simple and the evidence backing it up is so strong. But, we have to recall that (a) many people haven't got far in life in terms of education in culture, and so they have all kinds of weird reasons for not processing information in the most logical way, (b) we live in an era where ideas circulate fast, and there are many (truly) extreme and dumb ideas floating around. Even for well-educated people, (...) – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 21:44
  • veganism may be quickly dismissed as one of them, precisely as it asks people to do so much; and yes, for 20-30 year olds around university circles like us it may not sound like much, but compare what it asks [changing your entire diet/lifestyle] to more trivial issues like being healthy [practicing some sport and not eating that much junk] or covid [staying at home and wearing a mask] and try to see if you find world-wide consensus on any of these topics. You won't (heck 50% of the U.S. isn't even vaccinated yet!). – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 21:53
  • To be clear, I am addressing two audiences in the last comment: (a) the mass of crazy people who won't become vegan even after it is easy, cheap, and half of the globe has already done it, and (b) the educated people who dismiss veganism for being extreme. For the first group, I have no solution other than the classic long-term one: education (which would solve loads of other problems also). However, for the latter, I feel we need to get thinks going a step at a time (à la kanban if you know what I mean); we've got to ease our way through until it becomes obvious (...) – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 22:02
  • that going vegan/vegetarian is helpful and necessary. Having this view in mind, I looks to me like these certified products are a good gateway for getting these people into the issue of animal suffering without the need of drawn-out arguments. Educated people eating these kinds of products (I hope) will eventually be curious to find out in what ways they help protect the animals. If they have some notions of economy and stumble across the right figures, they might, for the reasons you point out, naturally develop the wish for being vegans. For me, when it comes to this group, it is all (...) – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 22:12
  • a matter of getting the barrier/defenses down. – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 22:13
  • @AlekFröhlich if I understand correctly, your main goal is still to ultimately turn people vegan, with certified humane animal products largely just being a means to that end? In that case I don't think the details of enforcement and quality of these programs/farms matters that much. I think it's safe to estimate that they're a reasonable improvement over factory farms and if it's only meant to be temporary it's not worth delving deeper. – Alex Hall Aug 03 '21 at 22:39
  • @AlexHall There is one thing in what you wrote that may render my question useless. Namely, I implicitly assumed that the majority of well educated people would stick to being what you call ethical omnivores and would take quite a while to discover veganism on their own. My question would then be how we activists could optimize their results (towards the minimization of suffering) while in this vegan sleep-state. Specifically, how could we maximize the requirements of certification programs and make sure effective monitoring is taking place. As we wouldn't be the direct consumers, (...) – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 22:55
  • I now feel we wouldn't have much of a say (we could protest, but the real pressure is economic, and we have no effect on that) – Alek Fröhlich Aug 03 '21 at 22:58
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    I don't see any need to change the question (but I do think that the huge wall of comments is a bit of an issue and should end up somewhere else - in a post of your own perhaps - comments are meant to be ephemeral) but if you prefer to change it then since nobody has answered it yet I don't think you would be treading on any toes if you do. – Zanna Aug 04 '21 at 02:53
  • sure you can just delete the comments when you're done, but I mean they might be of interest and value to others so you might be able to incorporate at least some of the ideas from them into a post :) – Zanna Aug 04 '21 at 07:49

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After discussing in the comments with Alex, I realized that some of the assumptions I had made when writing the question were too strong. Namely, I had assumed that a great majority of the well-educated people who started to eat certified products would stick to it for the sake of the animals or their own well-being (these products tend not to have antibiotics/hormones). However, as Alex points out in his blog post, there is no hard commitment from the part of ethical omnivores, as can be seen by an almost inexistent community built around it. For this reason, they are more likely to only respect their decision from time to time, or worse, to quit it entirely (one driving factor for it may be high prices). This conclusion undermines my question in two ways: first, it is likely (and I am starting to notice it now) that this light weight decision - that is, to exclusively buy certified products - will not bring people to reflect about the conditions of animals; second, as it is probably the case that not many people will become committed to buying certified products, the need for us activists to optimize the hole situation, i.e., to make sure the suffering incurred by these products is minimized as much as possible (requirements and monitoring are the strictest possible), becomes less important. Nevertheless, since these products will still be bought in non neglectable amounts (the amount of research animals that suffer from exploitation is orders of magnitude less than the amount of animals that suffer from the meat industry, but we fight for their well-being nonetheless), I take the time to answer my latter question in the negative: animal liberation activists (mainly vegan/vegetarian) probably can't do much to improve the situation.

In what ways could an animal liberation activist pressure certification programs to do their jobs better? Besides the usual protesting, which I think will go on in a way that is independent of certification programs (the rights we claim such as minimum standing areas and less invasive procedures apply to all farms, not just factory farms), the only other way I can think of is economical pressure. That is, to make pressure by not buying products from weakly certified brands. However, most of us activist wouldn't be buying them anyway (there are those who acknowledge the issues of factory farming but still desire to eat meat, however, as we said, they are either a minority or not as dedicated to the cause as would be necessary to implement change). Thus, I don't see anything unique to certified products that would compel exclusive action/consideration from the part of activists.

Note: I am still curious about my first pair of questions.