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I remember reading that there is a dialect in which older men refer to themselves as あたし. It didn't have a feminine connotation, it may have even been a bit rough.

I think I read it on Wikipedia, but being as I can't find it now, I wonder if it was a prank edit. I'm also pretty sure it was a Honshu dialect.

Louis Waweru
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    Google suggests that there are some older men who use あたし, and that it was a common personal pronoun for tradesmen in the Edo era. Can't find any solid references, though. – Amanda S Jun 11 '11 at 09:00
  • Your tip lead me to a few hits, I put it in an answer below. – Louis Waweru Jun 11 '11 at 13:33

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I never heard that あたし is used as regional dialect, but old men from Rakugo-ka (落語家) sometimes use it. If I remember correctly, Hayashiya Kikuou (林家木久扇) from Shou-ten (笑点) uses it.

Note: rakugo-ka are a group of people who do rakugo, a kind of comedian talk show. One of the definitions at the Merriam-Webster dictionary mentions "dialect" as "a variety of a language used by the members of a group", so that could be a kind of dialect. But the Japanese Wikipedia definition of dialect, 方言, only mentioned regional dialect as dialect. (I didn't read the details of it, so I could be wrong.)

RegDwight
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YOU
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  • If people from a certain place use it, then it is by definition dialectical, isn't it? – Kef Schecter Jun 11 '11 at 04:51
  • @Kef, Immm, Rakugo-ka is not a place, but group of people who do rakugo 落語, some kind of comedy talk show. But I don't know exact definition of dialect in English, trying to figure out... – YOU Jun 11 '11 at 04:54
  • @Kef, looks like you're right, [Dialect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect) refers to "a particular group of the language's speakers", so it does not say about the place, but japanese definition of [方言](http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%B9%E8%A8%80) says that kind of particular place. – YOU Jun 11 '11 at 05:09
  • @YOU: the term for a dialect used by a group of people which is not related by living in the same locality is [sociolect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociolect). Sometimes the term [jargon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon) is used when referring to a sociolect used a by a professional group, but for many people this term just implies a list of professional terms (e.g. IT jargon which has all these three-letter computer acronyms :)). – Boaz Yaniv Jun 11 '11 at 11:26
  • BTW, if I understand the Wikipedia reference about *rakugoka* using あたし right, they are using it on stage, as it is a vestige of an old-fashioned use by Edo-period artisans of merchants. – Boaz Yaniv Jun 11 '11 at 11:31
  • @Boaz, heh, you mean the history of Rakugo? I have no idea as you know. – YOU Jun 11 '11 at 11:32
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    I mean that あたし was common for men in a the Edo dialect-sociolect (since it combines both region and social class) used by artisans and merchants. At least that's what Wikipedia says, I haven't been there at that time. :D Since much of the classical Edo-style rakugo represents the merchant and artisan classes, it's only natural that at least some rakugoka will try to speak like a member of that particular class in Edo period. – Boaz Yaniv Jun 11 '11 at 11:39
  • @Boaz, Thanks for the explanations about Rakugo. I've been watching 笑点 as normal TV show, never realized that style is merchant and artisan classes. :D – YOU Jun 11 '11 at 11:44
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Looks like the reason I couldn't find it was because someone recently rewrote the Tokyo dialect article on Wikipedia (by chance the old page was still cached and served to me!). It said, "Atashi is a feminine first person in standard Japanese, but in Shitamachi dialect, it is often used by both men and women."

Sorry if I threw anyone off by limiting it to older men. I think my brain just associates Shitamachi with older people (maybe because of this).

I also found this goo question which was answered with 「あたし」は男女問わず東京弁です。特に男が使うのが下町の特徴です。 (Forgive the translation: Tokyo-ben's atashi isn't connected to gender. In particular, it's a trait of the Shitamachi men who use it.)

Unfortunately, the Wiki wasn't well sourced, and well the goo site isn't definitive either.

By the way, I found a few links that agree with what YOU said about being used by rakugo professionals.

Louis Waweru
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No. Older men might use わし, but men don't use あたし. Maybe if they are homosexuals (like Tanoshingo) and even then, it would be to joke around, I think.

Rolf
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    The term “homosexual” describes a [sexual orientation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation) (attracted to the same sex or gender). Are you sure that you are really talking about the sexual orientation? I am afraid that you might be confusing [effeminate men](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effeminacy) with homosexual men. Effeminate men are not necessarily homosexual, and homosexual men are not necessarily effeminate. – Tsuyoshi Ito Jun 11 '11 at 13:14