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Here is yet another puzzling sentence for me from a dictionary I am using:

何ページ か 欠けている。 A few pages are missing. (研究社)

My understanding is that while 何ページ ambiguously means "what/which/how many page/pages," adding か as a suffix to it limits the meaning to "a few pages." This applies to common usages such as いくつか, 何人か, etc.

What I do not understand is why there is not a subject marker after this か. When I saw the sentence, I expected to see が between the verb and the subject. On HiNative, a native speaker gave me either "35ページが欠ける" or "何ページか欠ける," but not "何ページかが欠ける." On top of that, a Google search using a similarly structured phrase "何個か欠ける" yielded 1,700 results, whereas "何個かが欠ける" did none. I messed around using other combinations such as かけている, 欠ける, etc. Still, かが+欠ける is simply non-existent.

Notwithstanding the above situation, usages like "何人かが" or "何個かが" seems to be extremely common (bar false positives), not to mention taking は into consideration. "何人かは" and the like are prevalent as well.
EDITED: This claim was wrong. 何__かが practically yields no results. Please see my edit note at the bottom.

What sorcery is this? Now, 欠ける is plain and simple an intransitive verb, so transitivity being the culprit is out of the question. Other sample sentences in the dictionary show 欠ける used with が/は, and with either an animate subject or one that is inanimate. Thus, these are not the factors either.

My only feasible, makeshift theory is that this is a chance encounter where the denizens of the Net simply do not fancy putting 何__かが beside 欠ける. Not plausible enough as I have nothing concrete to back this up. I am at my wit's end.

<(_ _)>この通りです。よろしくお願いいたします！

Edit explanation:

Sorry about this folks, but I made a serious mistake by assuming Google's search results count was trustworthy. As it turned out, as Eversome kindly pointed out below, "何__かが" actually yielded almost zero results no matter what counter we put in between. My bad.

This change of situation means that my question above was in effect partially based on false assumptions. No, __かが is not allowed at all.

The new question: Why is 何__かがVERBnot allowed?

Yeti Ape
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  • Have you considered the possible structure of "The (book/magazine's page count) is lacking by 35 pages or so? – Otomatonium May 21 '18 at 20:11
  • @Otomatonium: Sorry but I don't get what you're trying to say. "およそ35ページが欠けている。" This is probably the only attempt I can produce at my level. Still, I don't see how this solves my problem. Could you elaborate a bit further? – Yeti Ape May 22 '18 at 03:01
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    FWIW, BCCWJ has 142 examples of 何人かが, 24 examples of 何人かを, and 1575 examples of 何人か. – naruto May 22 '18 at 12:14

1 Answers1

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This is simply because we don't usually use が to express the number of something. I think you already know (子供が)3人いる, (リンゴが)5個ある, (本を)3冊買う and so on are grammatical. Number + counter can work as a noun too (e.g., 3人が集まった), but it's relatively uncommon. In addition, ページ is a tricky counter that means both "n pages" and "n-th page", depending on the context. If you use が, people usually take it as "n-th page".

  • 5ページ欠けている。 = Five pages are missing.
  • 5ページが欠けている。 = Page 5 is missing.

Likewise, 何ページか欠けている does not require が because it's about the number of pages.

EDIT: 何ページ often means "which page", whereas 何人/何個 does not mean "which person/one".

  • 何ページ欠けているのですか？ = How many pages are missing?
  • 何ページが欠けているのですか？ = Which page is missing?
  • 何ページ読んだ？ = How many pages did you read?
  • 何ページを読んだ? = Which page did you read?
  • 何人欠けているのですか？ = 何人が欠けているのですか？ = How many people are missing/absent? (The former is more common)

So you have to pay special attention when you use が/を with ページ. 何ページかが欠けている is probably grammatical and unambiguous, but it sounds a little unnatural to me, and it's not something people usually say.

naruto
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  • Thank you so much for taking the trouble to answer again. Unfortunately, it is still unclear to me. Do you mean that "何ページかが欠けている" is not ideal because of how ページ may connote the ordinal number of page? In fact, I assume if that meaning was used, "何ページかが欠けている" would mean, "*A few which pages are missing," which does not make sense. However, this does not explain why "何個かが欠けている," "何人かが欠けている, "and such are almost nowhere to be found either. Additionally, "何人かがいる/何人かが集まる" is common according to Google, but "何個かがある" isn't. 以上です。迷惑をかけたら本当にすみません… – Yeti Ape May 22 '18 at 03:50
  • @YetiApe See my edit, please. – naruto May 22 '18 at 07:14
  • I see what you mean now. The problem then is why people seem to treat 何個 in the same way as ページ. 何個 doesn't have the ambiguous nature of ページ, yet people exclusively say "何個かある" instead of "何個かがある." However, "何人かがいる" and "何人かいる" are both common, with the former being roughly 1.5 times more. There may or may not be more grammar involved in this. All things considered, as you have generously pointed out for me, while かが may be grammatical with 何個 (or even 何ページ), one has to take naturalness into account. Anyhow, I really appreciate your help. 勉強になりました！ – Yeti Ape May 22 '18 at 07:56
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    I found 19 results for "何人かがいる" and 227 results for "何人かいる" on Google. (Google's search estimate lies, so you need to go to the last page to see how many results it fetched.) Just a note: when you use a counter without a particle, you're using it adverbially. It's quantifying the real subject / object of the sentence. But when you use が, you're grammatically treating it as a noun. – Eversome May 22 '18 at 09:10
  • @Eversome: I cannot believe I didn't think about Google's cunning tendency. This absolutely changes the situation. Now I think this 何__かが usage simply does not exist! Thank you so much for clearing things up. I don't see how leaving out が turns the preceding 何-counter-か pair into an adverbial ____ (insert proper linguistic term) though, because then what is the subject in sentences such as "何個かある"? Or do you mean that only the counter-か is acting adverbially, and 何 is the subject? – Yeti Ape May 22 '18 at 10:28
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    何人かが exists, but is relatively uncommon. 何ページかが is even confusing because of the tricky nature of ページ. 何個かある does not have an explicit subject. – naruto May 22 '18 at 11:05
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    @YetiApe Now you're going in the wrong direction... `何 + counter + か` works both as a noun and as an adverb. What my answer and Eversome's answer are saying is that the adverbial usage is **relatively more common**. It's perfectly fine to say 何人かを呼ぶ, 何年かの時間, 何個かが残った, and so on. – naruto May 22 '18 at 11:31
  • Thank you for being patient with me (汗). Do you mean that although placing が after 何__か alters the structure, it is theoretically grammatical, yet uncommon/unnatural? I have my doubts since "何個かが" and such really yield few to no results on Google. But then again, just because it's grammatical doesn't mean people use it, I suppose? – Yeti Ape May 22 '18 at 12:16
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    @YetiApe Only 何ページかが欠けている is unnatural because ページ happens to be special. 何人か欠けている and 何人かが欠けている are both perfectly natural but the former is relatively more common. – naruto May 22 '18 at 12:25
  • I think I get it now. One last thing. Which one would you choose in a formal correspondence? 何人かが or 何人か? – Yeti Ape May 22 '18 at 12:33
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    I'll probably say 何人か, but there is almost no difference. Not saying が is not informal at all in this case. You're not omitting anything in the first place. – naruto May 22 '18 at 12:39