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There are a couple of posts suggesting that, with certain verbs, が can actually mark the direct object of a sentence instead of the subject. But it seems to me that, in these cases, we can just reinterpret the words marked by が as being proper subjects (instead of direct objects). The purpose of this post is to see if this model of Japanese is getting something wrong?

Example 1: 分かる. An example of a verb satisfying this is 分かる:

  1. 「ここが分かる」 "This is understandable." ("This" as the sentence's subject)
  2. 「ここを分かる」 "I understand this." ("This" as the sentence's direct object).

Example 2: Potential verbs. Then there are the potential cases, like:

  1. 「新聞が読める」 "Newspapers are readable." ("Newspapers" as the sentence's subject)
  2. 「新聞を読める」 "I can read newspapers.* ("Newspaper" as the sentence's direct object)

This interpretation also seems to preserve the (elsewhere cataloged) nuances of が vs. を:

  • Using を makes the sentence sound more volitional (since e.g. in the cases above, it forces the subject of the sentence to be a human being, rather than an inanimate object).
  • Using が gives the sentence an exclusionary feel (e.g. "This (as opposed to other things) is understandable" or "Newspapers (as opposed to other things) are readable.).

Is there something wrong/misleading in interpreting が this way (essentially, insisting that が never indicates direct objects)?

George
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    が only marks "objects" if you're thinking in English. See also [this other post](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/4991/dative-subjects/94546#94546) in response to a question about "dative subjects" and "nominative objects". – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 14 '23 at 04:40
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    新聞が読める is pretty neutral. は instead of が would give the sentence an exclusionary feel. – aguijonazo Feb 14 '23 at 05:28
  • Theory aside, I would say *I found a place where newspaper is readable* is wrong as a translation of 新聞が読める場所を見つけた . – sundowner Feb 14 '23 at 13:36
  • @EiríkrÚtlendi: Just to be clear, you're agreeing with my contention that が can be modeled as *always* marking a subject (and *never* a direct object) in these sorts of sentences? (In translations to idiomatic English I totally understanding letting が mark direct objects, but I'm more talking about in the literal Japanese). I hope this is true because I find this "が always marks a subject" model of Japanese much easier to grok and understand. – George Feb 14 '23 at 16:25
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    @sundowner: What if translated it as "Newspapers are readable (by me)"? – George Feb 14 '23 at 16:26
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    [This](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/96656/43676) seems related too. – aguijonazo Feb 14 '23 at 17:14
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    @George, considering the historical development of the _-eru_ potential forms, and given the consistent grammar of using が to mark the subject, yes, I don't think there's much of a sensible case to make for が marking "objects" as Japanese -- that only works in "Japanese as viewed through an English lens" (or perhaps the lens of some other PIE-derived language). For that matter, Spanish's use of the reflexive for potential is somewhat similar, in that the "thing" that "can be `[VERB]`-ed" is marked as the reflexive subject. See constructions like _"se habla español"_. – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 14 '23 at 17:37
  • @aguijonazo Thanks for the reference. It looks like the same debate there as here. – George Feb 14 '23 at 17:58
  • @George 'readable by me' -> then the subject is arguably 'me' – sundowner Feb 14 '23 at 22:20

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Without any further context, the most reasonable interpretation of 「新聞が読める」 is that "I am able to read a news paper".

To say, "Newspapers are readable" says absolutely nothing about whether I can or cannot read a news paper. This construct in English has a somewhat passive feel to it (how different is from saying "Newpapers can be read").

But the Japanese isn't passive at all.

Is there a reason you're not happy with が marking the subject? This is how ergative languages can work.

A.Ellett
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  • FWIW, there's a strong argument to be made that the potential form of type-1 Japanese verbs (a.k.a. 五段活用動詞【ごだんかつようどうし】, a.k.a. consonant-stem verbs) arose out of ergative usage of otherwise transitive verbs. See also [this post](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/91189/why-is-%e3%81%99%e3%82%8bs-potential-form-%e3%81%a7%e3%81%8d%e3%82%8b/92681#92681) describing a compelling paper I'd found that explores the historical development of this verb form. – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 14 '23 at 05:16
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    Isn't parsing "新聞が読める" as "newspapers are readable" fine so as long as we admit there is an implicit "by me" at the end (or perhaps an implicit 「私は」 at the beginning of the Japanese sentence)? Also, I'm totally happy with が marking the subject :] In fact it's allowing が to mark *direct objects* which I find really confusing here, and what motivated me to make this post. My goal is to see if I can safely parse sentences like these as "が-subject sentences", so I can preserve the notion that "が *always* marks the subject". – George Feb 14 '23 at 16:21
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    @George, the が here marks the subject of the potential verb 読める. Here, 読める is more directly translated as "to be readable", not "to be able to read". Originally, and still commonly, Japanese verbs of potential (and desiderative verb forms using ～たい) describe a characteristic of a thing. By contrast, English verbs of potential describe an ability of an actor. It's a different focus. – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 14 '23 at 17:47
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    @George, I think this is also why we start to see を used with potential verbs: this shifts the focus from the thing that is `[VERB]`-able, to the whole verb phrase being possible. 本が読める ("the book is readable [by me]", emphasis on _what_ is readable) → 本を読める ("it is the reading of the book that is possible", emphasis on what _action_ is possible, as a whole verb phrase). Bracketing the focus, we have（本）が読める (noun focus) and （本を読）める (verb phrase focus), – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 14 '23 at 17:51
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    Similar for desiderative ～たい forms: （ピザ）が食べたい ("it's the pizza that is desirable to eat [by me]", emphasis on the pizza) → （ピザを食べ）たい ("it's eating pizza that is desirable to do [by me]", emphasis on the entire verb phrase). – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 14 '23 at 17:51
  • @Eiríkr Útlendi: In the を potential & desiderative forms, is it appropriate to interpret them as flipping to an agent-focus (like in English)? For example in 「本を読める」 and 「ピザを食べたい」, you let the subject of the sentences be "it": (i) "it is the reading of the book that is possible"; (ii) "it's eating pizza that is desirable to do [by me]". Is it wrong to translate them with the subjects being "I", as in (a) "*I* am able to read this book" and (b) "*I* want to eat pizza"? This would seem to preserve the "action emphasis" (which seems like a volitional focus too?). Thanks for the discussion. – George Feb 14 '23 at 18:06
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    @George, that sounds like a reasonable interpretation. With translation, there is always a mismatch between the source and target, so it's often a matter of figuring out where that mismatch is least disruptive (not losing important meaning) and most appropriate (producing the most fitting target text for your use case). – Eiríkr Útlendi Feb 15 '23 at 00:19