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the new version of

Question:

1）What definition in Dictionary implies the '...ing' function of て,( as in 魚を食べている.)?
2) What definition in Dictionary implies the 'present perfect' function of て,( as in お前はもう死んでいる.)?

The old version of

Question:

Can 'verbABCている expressing the PAST'

be CONSIDERED as 'adverbialABC+いる'

and be UNDERSTOOD as 'is/exists+ABCly/in a state of ABC'?

You can follow the examples to understand my question well:

1)て verb as adverbial:

映画を見て食べる.

I eat watching the movie.

the adverbial is 見て and the verb is 食べる.

2)て-form for past events/states:

お前はもう死んでいる.

You already (have) died.

My proposition is:

Can we consider 死んで an adverbial in 2) of the verb いる and understand the sentence as:

お前はもう1(死んで)2(いる).

You already 1(dyingly/in a state of dying/in a state of having died)2(exist/are).

and only consider it a particular case of the general rule 1) where the 'past sense' is contained/hidden in 死んで being an adverbial?

Edit

Here's where I started thinking about this idea: て form and adverbial meaning
Answer
Yes it's adverbial in relation to the verb (predicate), but you can't say it's simply an adverb (you can't use a te-form verb alone as an adverb).

raruna
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    That is an interesting observation. I'm afraid that this rather "English-centric" view of the て form can break apart in some cases. Consider てくる and ていく when referring to progression of events across time. – rebuuilt Jul 30 '20 at 22:15
  • @rebuuilt you mean my proposition'd fail with てくる and ていく when we want to consider them in progressive? If that's what you mean then no. You can put them in section 1) of my question. – raruna Jul 30 '20 at 22:44
  • Check this out: https://www.tomojuku.com/blog/tekuruteiku4/#:~:text=%EF%BC%88%EF%BC%91%EF%BC%89%E7%84%A1%E6%84%8F%E5%BF%97%E5%8B%95%E8%A9%9E%EF%BC%8B,%E3%81%B8%E3%81%A8%E5%A4%89%E5%8C%96%E3%81%97%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99%E3%80%82&text=%EF%BC%88%E4%BE%8B%EF%BC%89%E5%B0%91%E3%81%97%E5%A4%AA%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%8D%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89,%E3%83%80%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A8%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%81%A7%E3%82%82%E5%A7%8B%E3%82%81%E3%82%88%E3%81%86%E3%81%8B%E3%80%82 – rebuuilt Jul 31 '20 at 00:13
  • That being said, I think treating て forms as some kind of an adverbial phrase is a good way for beginning students of Japanese to get the feel of the language. – rebuuilt Jul 31 '20 at 00:20
  • @rebuuilt Sorry for not being able to recognize all the text in the link you sent me, but i think it talks about 「～てくる、～ていく」表現 specifically, which is not the topic of my question. And i can't find 副詞 in your link which means it doesn't speak about adverbials or adverbs at all. Could you please explain what you wanted to show me in that link? – raruna Jul 31 '20 at 14:31
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    There's also an element of "do this, _and (then)_ do that" when you have multiple verbs in a row. For ～を見て食べる, I'd parse this initially as closer to "I watch ~ _and_ eat" or "I watch ~ _and then_ eat", depending on context. For "`[MAIN VERB]`-ing **while** `[OTHER VERB]`-ing", I'd expect to see the 「`[OTHER VERB]` **ながら** `[MAIN VERB]`」 construction instead. – Eiríkr Útlendi Jul 31 '20 at 22:05
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    @raruna if I understand the discussion, people are pointing out that Verbて may not be always adverbial, but it can be a way of chaining actions that occur sequentially but definitely at _different times_. This is all the more clear in constructions such as ていく / てくる. For example, 買っていく means that you _first_ buy something, and _after that_, then you go. It doesn't mean that you buy things as you go at the same time. – jarmanso7 Aug 01 '20 at 22:39
  • @jarmanso7 買っていく/くる=[in a state of having bought][go/come]=adverbial(i'm not sure)+verb. I hope you have read the body of my question until the end of it. – raruna Aug 01 '20 at 22:51
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    If you look at monolingual definitions for て, the particle in question here, it's defined in Japanese as conjunctive particle (接助). They look at it as a conjunction, not an adverb. – Leebo Aug 02 '20 at 01:50
  • @raruna I confirm I had read the whole question until the end before commenting. Alright, let's assume that Vて + いる can be seen as Vて modifying いる as an adverb (which I don't agree, but let's assume it for a moment) to mean "in the state of having done V". Then, how come 買っていく/ 買ってくる has this meaning? Where is いる in 買っていく/買ってくる？ – jarmanso7 Aug 02 '20 at 06:43
  • "Can we consider 死んで an adverbial [...] where the 'past sense' is contained/hidden in 死んで being an adverbial?". I can't make sense of this part. If 死んで were adverbial, then It couldn't contain any sense of past or time in general, because adverbs do not conjugate. – jarmanso7 Aug 02 '20 at 06:52
  • @jarmanso7 If that's the case, then what prevents 死んでいる from being "am/is/are dying" while 食べている is meant to be "am/is/are eating"? – raruna Aug 02 '20 at 14:47
  • @Leebo So you consider it a 'particel' not even a conjugation form. I'd appreciate it if you give me the list of definitions of the て particle/conjunction. – raruna Aug 02 '20 at 14:51
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    @raruna https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%A6 and lookup for 接助, there is 10 definitions (if it's too difficult, google translate works fairly well with dictionary definition) Basically て is just connective/linking/conjunctive particle. Sometimes it links adverbial but not always, it's wider than that. – Arzar Aug 02 '20 at 15:01
  • @ThomasPetit It may take me 4 days to be able to decipher the content of the link you sent me. But i'll give it a try anyway. – raruna Aug 02 '20 at 15:08
  • I've become convinced. Now either one of you answer the question or i'll answer it myself. – raruna Aug 02 '20 at 15:40

1 Answers1

-1

Remark:

I strrugled a bit to understand what ① and ⑧ speak about. And i'm not sure if my choice of the definitions was correct, but my effort lead me to this answer.

Any additional explanations or corrections/improvements concerning my answer are appreciated.

Answer:

て is a conjunctive and has several definitions according to the dictionary https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%A6


Concerning the pattern 1)映画を見て食べる. I think it corresponds to the definition ① in 一（ 接助 ）in the dictionary.


Concerning the pattern 2)お前はもう死んでいる. I think it corresponds to definition ⑧ in 一（ 接助 ）in the dictionary.

raruna
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  • If you are not sure about how to answer your own question, I suggest not answering it in a separate answer. Place your speculation within the question itself, not in an attempted answer to your own inquiry. – kandyman Aug 03 '20 at 15:29
  • @kandyman I edited the order of the text so that it won't be misleading. I hope this will make things neutral. – raruna Aug 03 '20 at 17:53