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I'm trying to understand how to conjugate verbs like 「発する」, 「属する」, 「察する」 and the like.

In a book I found 「発せられる」, which I think is the potential form of 「発する」, but it doesn't seem to follow the usual rules, so I was wondering: how about causative, passive and other forms? Does it matter if the verb has a っ (はっする) or not (ぞくする)?

I tried checking online, but I found both 「発せられる」 and 「発できる」 as potential (and IME recognize both), but I won't even be sure about how to read the latter (はっできる? はつできる? IME recognize the former) so I'm kind at a loss here.

Mauro
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    I think 発できる is wrong. Related: https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/46857/5010 / https://japanese.stackexchange.com/q/56257/5010 – naruto Jun 16 '20 at 12:24
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    Where did you see 発できる? – kandyman Jun 16 '20 at 12:30
  • @kandyman for example in here https://www.nihongomaster.com/dictionary/entry/45863/hassuru the potential form is given as 「発できる」, which sounds odd to me. But I know online dictionary uses automatic conjugator, so I'm wary of that. I also found this other page https://cooljugator.com/ja/%E7%99%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B whose conjugations sound right, but I'm not really sure. – Mauro Jun 16 '20 at 14:28
  • I'm wondering if the potential form of the OOする verbs borrows the conjugation from the ＯOす verbs. i.e. はっせる instead of はっできる... Or if it is indeed 発せられる. Wikipedia lists 発せられる as the passive form. – kandyman Jun 16 '20 at 14:29
  • https://repository.ninjal.ac.jp/?action=pages_view_main&active_action=repository_view_main_item_detail&item_id=2069&item_no=1&page_id=13&block_id=21 was a pretty interesting article I found on this and related things. As a general note, online conjugators won't get these right because they're all exceptions – Ringil Jun 16 '20 at 17:06
  • @Ringil Wow, what a find! Great work there on locating that awesome article. I had a cursory read through it and it's fascinating! I had no idea these forms were in such a wild state of flux. As for 発する, if I'm reading the article correctly it suggests that where Type B verbs (発する) can be used like Type A (訳する＝訳をする), you can use できる as the potential form but that in general that it's very rare. Since 発をする is not correct, 発できる is unlikely to be used. So maybe the potential form could be 発せられる after all? – kandyman Jun 16 '20 at 18:54
  • For example, take a sentence like 特使を発する (from 三省堂 スーパー大辞林). Semantically, it is plausible to put this in a potential form. But would it be 特使を発せられる or 特使を発せる? Do these sound strange? – kandyman Jun 16 '20 at 19:08
  • @kandyman Uh, I think the thing that is called Type A in the article is just する only. 訳する is a Type B verb according to the classifications in the article and is part of list (1) on page 12 of the article. Page 12 also describes further exceptions like 損する and 得する, which allow 損できる etc, which are considered different from Type B verbs. The argument of the paper is that verbs with 促音 are similar to サ変 (X」が促音・擾音・長音を含む場合はサ変のままであり). The article lists 発せられる as having 88 instances, so I believe that is the one used for both passive and potential. – Ringil Jun 16 '20 at 22:57
  • Yes, I understand that Type A are just regular する verbs. I was alluding to those exceptions such as 損する which allow できる like Type A (また，「訳する」は（B）類であるが，語学学習の文脈では「訳をする」「訳できる」などのように（A）類としても使われる。) The thing is, I've asked a couple of native speakers about 発せられるvs 発せる and both felt that 発せる was more natural as a potential form. – kandyman Jun 16 '20 at 23:13
  • @kandyman You could be witnessing language evolution :) These are all exceptional cases anyways – Ringil Jun 16 '20 at 23:29

1 Answers1

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As this answer says, these "special suru-verbs" are tricky and unstable. They conjugate sometimes like a suru-verb and sometimes like a godan-verb. However, they never turn to dekiru-form like normal suru-verbs do. That is, we can say 運転できる or 勉強できる but not 属できる nor 発できる.

One workaround is to conjugate them as godan verbs (発せる, 属せる, 察せる). However, as the linked answer says, tendency to conjugate as a godan verb depends on the verb. Among these three, I think 属せる is completely fine, but I feel 察せる is less common, and 発せる is unnatural (although understandable). Likewise, I feel 属さない/属そう is fine but 発さない/発そう/察さない/察そう are unnatural if not wrong. This means 属す(る) is more godan-like and 発する is more suru-verb-like in my mind.

How about 発せられる? This looks as if there were an ichidan verb 発せる, but actually せられる is an archaic passive form (e.g., 罰せられる is "to be punished" and 熱せられる is "to be heated"). 発せられる has a passive meaning ("to be emitted"), but from my experience せられる rarely has a potential meaning.

Fortunately, there is one safe approach that works regardless of the type of the special suru-verb. Simply use することができる and say 発することができる, 属することができる and 察することができる! I think even native speakers often (unconsciously) take this approach when they are unsure.

Another approach is to use し得る and say 発し得る, etc., but this tends to mean "possibly ～" rather than "is able to ～", and sounds literary and stiff.

Related: What are the valid potential forms of special "suru" verbs?

naruto
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  • If 「発せられる」 doesn't work since it's intransitive, what does it mean? I found it in a book, so I thought is was right, is that a typo or at least unusual? Also, since 「発せる」 sounds unnatural, is there a potential form without using 「ことができる」 and 「し得る」? – Mauro Jun 17 '20 at 08:27
  • How about 特使を発する (from 三省堂 スーパー大辞林)? Isn't that a transitive usage? – kandyman Jun 17 '20 at 08:42
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    Oh, sorry! 発する is tranaitive (光を発する = to emit light, 発せられた光 = emitted light)! I'll fix my answer later. – naruto Jun 17 '20 at 08:55
  • @naruto Your answer is excellent and I appreciate it very much. I'm just very interested in the details myself as I find it fascinating. For example, are you sure できる is never used? Something like 損できる, for example. – kandyman Jun 17 '20 at 13:17
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    @kandyman 損する is short for 損をする and falls into the same category as 楽する described [here](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/a/46878/5010). For this type of verb, I think we can say 楽できる, 損できる, etc. (well, 損できる "to be able to lose money" is semantically odd...) – naruto Jun 17 '20 at 13:27
  • Is there a way to know if it's a verb, like 発する, or a shortening, like 損する < 損をする? Both of them are listed as special class on Jisho, and as （ 動サ変 ） ［文］ サ変 on Weblio. – Mauro Jun 17 '20 at 13:33
  • @naruto semantically odd, maybe. but i remember this crazy board game (https://www.amazon.co.uk/MB-Games-Go-For-Broke/dp/B002Q65RS6) where the objective is to be able to lose money :) – kandyman Jun 17 '20 at 14:03
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    @Mauro I don't know. Well, if you know whether you can say Xをする or not, that should work at least as a hint. – naruto Jun 18 '20 at 05:18
  • @kandyman Great, in such situations 損できる sounds perfectly fine to me. – naruto Jun 18 '20 at 05:18