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I think in all situations where either 一緒に could be used, 二人で can also be used, and vice versa. I suppose 三人、四人、五人、etc. can also be used here if that's the number of people you are talking about.

But I'm curious as to the different connotations (if they exist) in these words/phrases.

atlantiza
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3 Answers3

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As for connotations:

  • 一緒に行きませんか　Would you like to join me/us (no information about how many we are)
  • 二人で行きませんか　Let's go just the two of us (sounds a bit like you're inviting someone on a date)

I wouldn't use ○人で unless that exact number is important for some reason.

dainichi
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One shows the quantity. The other expresses the "togetherness" of the action.

Flaw
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there is no trick, one is "together", the other is "the both of us". That's it.

oldergod
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    I would say that 二人で has a slightly narrower meaning than "the both of us". "The both of us" does not necessarily exclude more people, but 二人で is 2, no more, no less. – dainichi Jan 22 '12 at 12:47
  • Do you have example expressing what you are trying to say? Does not make much sense to me. – oldergod Jan 22 '12 at 14:05
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    To elaborate, I think "both of us" is better translated as 二人とも. For example, let's say you and your wife/husband are invited to go skiing by some friends. If you say 二人とも行きます, it means "both of us will join you", but if you say 二人で行きます, it could be taken as if you're turning down the invitation, saying “we'll go just the two of us (by ourselves)". – dainichi Jan 22 '12 at 16:06
  • I never heard a case of 二人共 that would include the speaker. But why not. – oldergod Jan 22 '12 at 23:39
  • @dainichi: Sorry, but "both" *is* strictly about *two* people or things. It does necessarily exclude more. So "both of (us, them, whoever...)" is directly equal to `二人`. – Questioner May 09 '12 at 03:17
  • @DaveMG Sorry if I didn't explain well enough. "I" is strictly one person, but there's still a difference between "I am going" and, say, "I am going by myself". If you say "We are both going" that doesn't necessarily mean "we" are going by ourselves, but if you say 二人で行く, it means that two persons are going by themselves, no more people. – dainichi May 09 '12 at 07:34
  • @dainichi: I don't think that "We are both going" extends the meaning of "both". It's that it is an incomplete concept. The answer to the question of "where", or "to what", or "how" will determine the people involved. Similarly, is it not possible in Japanese to say 「二人でパーティーに行こう」? In the context of my invitation, I'm strictly talking about you and I. However, for presumeably there will be others at the party (or it will suck). I think you're right that "both" and 「二人で」 come bound with different assumptions, but they seem to share implied potential. – Questioner May 10 '12 at 05:39
  • @DaveMG OK, I see your point. So the context (let's say an invitation) is important. "both" assumes that the context is only 2 persons. If 3 persons' attendance is in question, you wouldn't say "We're both going", you'd say "X of us are going". 二人で makes no such assumptions. The context can be any number of persons, and 二人で行く means "two of us are going" or "We're going (just) the two of us". – dainichi May 10 '12 at 08:40
  • @dainichi: Okay, I think we're on common ground, So I'm not strongly disagreeing with you. I'm just a little confused. I follow you right up to where you say "二人で makes no such assumptions". Then I'm not sure what assumptions you mean, because "both" also makes no assumptions (which you even describe). So I'm still not seeing a difference. – Questioner May 10 '12 at 11:00
  • @DaveMG Maybe assumption is the wrong word. "both" is only *applicable* when the context is 2 persons. 二人で is applicable with any number of persons in the context. "Are 0 or 1 or 2 of you coming?" "We're both going" vs. "Are 0 or 1 or 2 or 3 or... of you coming?" "二人で行く". Thus 二人で *restricts* the answer to 2 persons (out of the context) whereas "both" needs not make any restriction, since there were only 2 persons in the context to begin with. – dainichi May 11 '12 at 00:37
  • @oldergod An example on http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E4%BA%8C%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%A8%E3%82%82&ref=sa : 二人ともそう思ってるんだ。We both feel the same way. – dainichi May 11 '12 at 00:40
  • @dainichi: Ah, I think I see now what you're saying. 二人 literally means "two of people", where "two" is strict, but, interestingly "people' is open. That's why if you ask 「三人で行く？」, 「二人で」 is a legitimate answer. The number of the people is restricted, but which 2 of the 3 is open. Whereas with "both", "are three going?" can't be answered with "both are", because "both" needs a context (an assumption) of already knowing which two. Huh. I feel like I just learned both English and Japanese at the same time. :) Though now I see the difference, it seems to me that "both" is more strict... – Questioner May 11 '12 at 01:43