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In this question before, I tried to produce examples of the usage of けれども (けど, けども). These are those examples:

  1. 犬{いぬ}がほえているけれども、だれか外{そと}にいるんじゃない？
  2. この地方{ちほう}は寒{さむ}いと聞{き}いたけれども、本当{ほんとう}に毎日{まいにち}冷{ひ}え込{こ}むね。
  3. ね、ミキちゃん、喉{のど}乾{かわ}いたけど、水{みず}ちょうだい。
  4. この説明書{せつめいしょ}って結構{けっこう}曖昧{あいまい}だけど、よくわからないよね。
  5. 健一{けんいち}君{くん}病気{びょうき}だと聞{き}いたけども、車{くるま}を借{か}りてもいいですか。
  6. お父{とう}さんがぼやいていたけど、最近{さいきん}ガス代{だい}はたかくなってきたって。
  7. ビール買{か}ってきたけどさ、飲{の}まない？

User @非回答者 commented that some (most) of my examples sound unnatural, and I'd like help from all of you to try and fix this. I'm asking three things:

  • Which sentences you think sound unnatural?
  • For each "unnatural" sentence, if possible, please suggest a fix to make it sound more natural (still using けれども).
  • If a sentence is not at all "workable", please explain why けれども is not suitable for that particular phrase.
Community
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Oskar Lindberg
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2 Answers2

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  1. “犬がほえている けど 、だれか外にいるんじゃない？”
    The whole sentence sounds informal.

  2. “この地方は寒いと聞いた けど 、本当に毎日冷え込むね。”
    Same as 1.

  3. “ね、ミキちゃん、喉乾いた から 、水ちょうだい。”
    “けれども” cannot be used as “because”.

  4. “この説明書って結構曖昧 で 、よくわからないよね。”
    Same as 3.

  5. I don’t understand. What is the relationship between 病気 and 借りる?

  6. “お父さんがぼやいていたけど、最近ガス代はたかくなってきた ね 。”
    “けれども” cannot introduce a quotation.

  7. “ビール買ってきたけどさ、飲まない？”
    No thanks :-)

a user
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  • Thank you for answering. I agree about 1 and 2. They were quoted though from Particles Plus by Atsuko Kawashima (1992, Harcourt Japan), and I did not want to change anything before getting feedback. 6: I hear this all the time though. For example, this is a transcript of a conversation between some Japanese people: おじさんがぼやいてたけど、会社で、ノー残業デーとか決めて、残業時間を減らそうとしても、結局、仕事が減るわけじゃないから、残業はせざるを得ないって。 – Oskar Lindberg Nov 23 '14 at 20:24
  • Do you think usages like in example 3 may still be heard in some situations, but not as "because"? Like when people use けど to sort of "change the subject". I can't find any quotes to support this, but I think it's not uncommon, and other native Japanese speakers seem willing to support the idea that this usage is not uncommon. Let's say for example that A and Miki from the example have been running, and stopped for a break, and Miki then starts rambling about something unrelated instead of passing the bottle. As for 5, how about what I suggest in my comment to @isamayag's answer? – Oskar Lindberg Nov 23 '14 at 20:42
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I don't get the situation of #5, either.

#4 sounds fairly inconsistent. 曖昧で or 曖昧だし suits here instead.

As for the remaining 5 examples, I don't think any one is unacceptable. #3 may sound a little weird and から obviously seems more adaptable, but I do think Japanese people sometimes use けど like this way. There must be a lot of unsaid implication after the conjunction...I believe :)

[Added] To try to summarize using a model of "A [けれども|けど] B", in #1,#2,#3,#6,#7, A part functions as a premise or proposal of a topic. B part usually expands the topic, sometimes appearing contradictory to A (like, この地方は寒いと聞いたけれども、それほどでもないね), but can never say something predicative whose reason can be explained by A, like #4.

So:

  1. ○ 犬がほえているけど、だれか外にいるんじゃない？
  2. × 犬がほえているけど、だれかが外にいることは確実だ。
  3. ○ 犬がほえているし、だれかが外にいることは確実だ。

Here #2 sounds rather weird because the above rule applies. In this case you should use から or し(#3). OTOH #1 is rather acceptable, B part being not predicative, after all it's a simple proposal and expansion of a topic. Also:

  1. △ 喉が乾いたけど、水をくれるかな？
  2. ○ 喉が乾いたんだけど、水をくれるかな？
  3. ○ 喉が乾いたから、水をくれるかな？
  4. × 喉が乾いたけど、水がほしい。
  5. ○ 喉が乾いたから、水がほしい。

About んだ in #2 is another long story though I can't touch here. But for now, I would point out that #4 is the case the above rule applies, and is almost impossible.

isayamag
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  • Thank you for your answer. Do you think 4 would be acceptable if we end the first sentence after けど? Something like A is reading and commenting to himself that he doesn't get it, then turns to B for confirmation. 5: Can we make the sentence acceptable perhaps by expanding on the context, like if A and Kenichi were planning to go together in Kenichi's car, but Kenichi got sick, and A then asks someone related, like Kenichis wife, about borrowing the car none the less? – Oskar Lindberg Nov 23 '14 at 20:32
  • As for 3, do you think that a context such as the one I suggested in my comment to @krnk's answer may make it less "weird"? (Oh, and by "3", "4" and "5" I mean the examples in my question, not the numbers from the explanations in your answer.) – Oskar Lindberg Nov 23 '14 at 20:44
  • Let me number your three questions from the top, for convenience.
    Q1: Rather no. "この説明書って結構曖昧だけど。よくわからないよね" still doesn't sound natural to me. A natural utterance (in two sentences) may be like, say, "この説明書って結構曖昧だね。よくわからないよね". I can fully understand the situation of "A is reading and commenting to himself", but normally, usual 終助詞 (sentence ending particles) for commenting tone are ね, な, よ, わ, etc., not けど. However I can't say for sure there is no one who use けど here.     – isayamag Nov 24 '14 at 15:05
  • Q2: Oh yes, with that story in the background, it may make sense and sound fairly natural.
    Q3: If I have to use けど inevitably for some reason, I would say "ミキちゃん、喉乾いた**んだ**けど、水ちょうだい" (please refer to my examples 1-5). This is fair. Or just "ミキちゃん、**私**喉乾いたけど" may be acceptable, though it should sound very cynical by implicitly accusing Miki of not handing the bottle. Anyway, your example itself still seems to remain unnatural.     – isayamag Nov 24 '14 at 15:17
  • I agree with the "cynicism" of the third example - I was kind of going for that (I hope Miki realizes that it's probably in her best interest to end things with A if he doesn't shape up his manners presently). Interesting how small nuances like adding んだ or 私 changes the "feel" of the sentence for the better. Anyway, good and thought provoking explanations - thanks for giving my question consideration. – Oskar Lindberg Nov 24 '14 at 15:35
  • ん+だ/ん+です is a very common useful compound which has a function of setting focus to its preceding words (and perhaps overwrites the けど's contradictory function in our case). 寒いです and 寒いんです sound pretty different for example. BTW I thought A was a woman because of the rather womanly addressing ね. If A was a man of course he would use 僕 or 俺 instead of 私. Anyway I'm glad if it helped any bit. – isayamag Nov 25 '14 at 06:38