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I was wondering, I learnt an う lengthens the sound before it. When I learnt the word みずうみ I thought it is a long u and saw it as a whole new word, but I noticed みずうみ exists of 2 words:　みず (water) and うみ (sea), the u does not function as lenghteing the ず but as the first syllable of うみ. I am a bit confused here: Do you say "mizu umi" or "mizuumi" as one word (with a long u)?

Thank you in advance!

日本語の学生より。

hippietrail
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user2667257
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  • I _think_ if they are separate words you should pronounce them as separate words ("mizu umi") but I'm fairly beginner still so I could be wrong. – syin Apr 01 '14 at 20:25

1 Answers1

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In terms of etymology, みずうみ is indeed derived from two words, but it's now a single word—much like how English housewife is a single word, even though it's clearly derived from house + wife.

This doesn't really matter for how you pronounce two /u/ vowels in a row, though. You just hold the sound for an extra beat ("mora"), like it's a long vowel:

/mizuːꜜmi/

Here, the ː symbol indicates a long vowel and the ꜜ symbol indicates a noticeable drop in pitch.

The drop in pitch is called a "pitch accent", and in this word it occurs after the second /u/ sound. The red line in the following shows the basic pitch pattern of the word, rising after the first /mi/ and falling after the second /u/:

みずうみ{LHHL}

I've checked four dictionaries, and all four say the pitch accent is in this location. However, several users have commented saying that the accent is often moved one mora to the left:

みずうみ{LHLL}

In any case, you can listen to a recording of this word that someone uploaded on Forvo.

  • As far as I know, Japanese has no such contrast as う↓ー and うー↓. Do you think if people would distinguish みずう↓み and みず↓うみ? – Yang Muye Apr 01 '14 at 10:33
  • I listened to the link, and heard “みず↓うみ”, which suggests that the ずう must be a long vowel. – Yang Muye Apr 01 '14 at 10:39
  • @YangMuye: The NHK発音アクセント gives prononciation as per 2nd last line of snailboat's answer (dropping after the 2nd u). – Tim Apr 01 '14 at 11:10
  • I think I hear みずうみ【LHLL】 more often. (And I agree that the person on Forvo pronounces it this way.) Would that be /mizuꜜːmi/, then? – Earthliŋ Apr 01 '14 at 11:15
  • @Tim, that's just the theoretical pattern. When うう is treated as a long vowel, there is no contrast between う↓ー and うー↓ or between う↑ー and ↑うー, but the standard notations are うー↓ and う↑ー. In addition, the NHK dictionary doesn't indicate long vowel consistently using ー, either. So it's not easy to guess if a vowel is long vowel or not through that dictionary. – Yang Muye Apr 01 '14 at 11:23
  • @YangMuye And there's no contrast between う↓ー and う↓う, but maybe うう↓ is different... Either way, I think みずう↓み is only possible if you regard it as a two-morpheme word. I agree with Earthliŋ, みず↓うみ is the way I perceive the word (regardless of NHK), but I'm wondering if that is just because **I** cognitively perceive this as a one-morpheme word. – dainichi Apr 01 '14 at 12:32
  • Is 葬る【ほうむる】 treated the same way? That one's always thrown me off a bit, since 訓読み usually use おお for lengthening instead of おう. – Kaji Apr 01 '14 at 23:30
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    @Kaji ほうむる is pronounced [ホームル]{LHHL}, according to the NHK dictionary. –  Apr 01 '14 at 23:35
  • @Kaji, I think ほうむる must be long vowel. おお usually comes from おほ or おを. For all other situations, おう is used, e.g. おとうさん. – Yang Muye Apr 01 '14 at 23:43
  • @dainichi, how about 魚のいるうみ? Would いるうみ{LHLL} sound natural? – Yang Muye Apr 01 '14 at 23:48
  • @YangMuye, no, I'd expect that to be いるう↓み. I suspect みずうみ might be special in the way that many speakers do not perceive a morpheme-break (and therefore do not downstep after う), while prescription says that there is one. – dainichi Apr 02 '14 at 00:30
  • For what it's worth, the forvo link sounds like it matches the dictionary pronunciation to me. – ssb Apr 02 '14 at 06:05