If $G$ is a countable group,can it have an uncountable number of distinct subgroups?
7 Answers
Let $V$ be a vector space of dimension $\aleph_0$ over a countable field $F$ (so $V$ is countable) and let $B$ be a basis for $V$ over $F$. Then every subset of $B$ spans a different subspace of $V$, so $V$ has $2^{\aleph_0}$ different subspaces, and its additive group has $2^{\aleph_0}$ different subgroups.
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1OK. More interesting question: Can a countable group have precisely $\omega_1$ subgroups? (Without assuming $\mathsf{CH}$, of course.) – Andrés E. Caicedo Oct 13 '14 at 06:25
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2@AndresCaicedo Hmm. Isn't the set of all subgroups of $G$ a closed set in the Tychonoff topology of $2^G$? Then, if $G$ is countable, the set of all subgroups of $G$ is homeomorphic to a closed set of real numbers, so it's either countable or has the cardinality of the continuum? Right? So, if $G$ is countable, then it can't have exactly $\omega_1$ subgroups, unless CH holds. – bof Oct 13 '14 at 06:33
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1Yes, that's the only argument I know of. I'm half wondering if one can provide a combinatorial argument for the existence of continuum many subgroups that is not just this descriptive set theoretic approach in disguise. – Andrés E. Caicedo Oct 13 '14 at 06:42
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1@AndresCaicedo Of course the "topological" argument has nothing to do with groups, it applies to any countable algebraic structure with finitary operations. I suppose there are some nontrivial settings where the existence of continuum many subalgebras can be proved by a "combinatorial" argument (whatever that means)? – bof Oct 13 '14 at 07:12
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Please explain why V is countable, I didn't understand that countable product of countable sets need not be countable. – Cloud JR K Jul 23 '20 at 14:35
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@CloudJR Your last sentence is referring to what? Who said anything about a "countable product of countable sets"? – bof Jul 23 '20 at 19:55
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To see that $V$ is countable enumerate $B$ as $B=\{b_1,b_2,b_3,\dots\}$ and let $V_n$ be the subspace spanned by $\{b_1,\dots,b_n\}$. Then $V=\bigcup_{n=1}^\infty V_n$ is a countable **union** of countable sets, so it's countable. – bof Jul 23 '20 at 20:00
One more example, using a very familiar group, the additive group $\mathbb Q$ of rational numbers. For any set $S$ of primes, consider the subgroup of $\mathbb Q$ consisting of those numbers that can be written as fractions (integer over integer) in which all the prime divisors of the denominator belong to $S$. (So, for example, when $S$ is empty, this subgroup is $\mathbb Z$, and when $S$ is the set of all primes, this subgroup is all of $\mathbb Q$.) There are continuum many choices for $S$, and each one leads to a different subgroup of $\mathbb Q$.
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Consider the direct sum of countably many $\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z}$ groups, which I'll denote by $$G = \displaystyle \bigoplus_{n = 1}^\infty \left( \mathbb{Z} / 2\mathbb{Z} \right)_n$$ and where the index is to keep track of each copy of $\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z}$. A set of subgroups of $G$ are formed by including or excluding the $n$th copy of $\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z}$ (but as Slade corrected me in the comments, this does not give all the subgroups). Nonetheless, any infinite binary sequence yields a distinct subgroup by including those indices that are $1$ in the sequence, and so we have an injection from $2^\mathbb{N}$ into the set of subgroups of $G$. Thus the set of subgroups is uncountable.
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@Slade: yes, you're right on all accounts. It does work if I use the direct sum, and I'll edit that in – davidlowryduda Oct 13 '14 at 04:47
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Sorry,I am not getting the bijective map.It would be of great help if someone explains it in more details for me – Learnmore Oct 13 '14 at 04:51
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@learningmaths If you were referring to the original (as I just edited), it's because it wasn't actually bijective. Sorry about that. – davidlowryduda Oct 13 '14 at 04:52
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A finitely presented example: the free group $\mathbb{F}_2$ of rank $2$. Indeed, it contains the free group $\mathbb{F}_{\infty}$ of countable infinite rank. Let $\{x_1,x_2,\dots\}$ be a free basis for such a subgroup. For any sequence $\mathfrak{n} = (n_i)$ of positive integers, let $S( \mathfrak{n})$ denote the free subgroup generated by $\{x_{n_1},x_{n_2}, \dots\}$. Finally, $\{S (\mathfrak{n}) \mid \mathfrak{n} \}$ defines an uncountable family of pairwise distinct subgroups.
More generally, it may be noticed that any SQ-universal group has uncountably many normal subgroups. Let $G$ be such a group. It is clear that a countable group has countably many 2-generated subgroups, and because there exist uncountably many non-isomorphic such groups, $G$ must have uncountably many quotients. A fortiori, $G$ has uncountably many normal subgroups.
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1For example, $\{a^iba^i:i\in\mathbb{Z}\}$ forms a basis for a copy of $\mathbb{F}_{\infty}$ in $\mathbb{F}_2$ (the derived subgroup $[\mathbb{F}_2, \mathbb{F}_2]$ is also isomorphic to $\mathbb{F}_{\infty}$, but the proof is less obvious, and would have to think what the basis would be!). – user1729 Oct 13 '14 at 10:42
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1In fact, it seems to be natural to deduce that the rank of $[\mathbb{F}_2,\mathbb{F}_2]$ is infinite from algebraic topology. See for example http://chiasme.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/a-free-group-contains-a-free-group-of-any-rank/ Furthermore, an explicit basis may be found. – Seirios Oct 13 '14 at 11:34
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Algebraic geometry proof about the derived subgroup by user1729: http://math.stackexchange.com/a/983990/111377 – evgeny Feb 19 '16 at 16:44
In a similar vein to Andreas' answer, consider the additive group $\mathbb{Z}[X]$ of integer-coefficient polynomials (so with finitely many terms). This group is countable, but for each subset of the naturals $S \subset \mathbb{N}$ we get a subgroup $\langle \left\{ x^n \vert n \in S \right\} \rangle$ and these are all distinct.
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1It is a good example, essentially $\mathbb{Z}^{(\mathbb{N})}$, that is, the multiplicative structure is not involved. – orangeskid Oct 13 '14 at 18:25
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Indeed, the groups are familiar and I find monomials $x^n$ easier to think about than $\langle \frac{1}{p_n} \rangle$, where $p_n$ is the $n$th prime. – yatima2975 Oct 14 '14 at 09:28
For each $(b_n) \in \prod_{n\in \mathbb{N}}(\mathbb{Z}/2)$ consider the map from $\oplus _{n\in \mathbb{N}}(\mathbb{Z}/2)$ to $\mathbb{Z}/2$ $$(a_n) \mapsto \sum_n a_n \cdot b_n$$
take the kernel of this map; we get $2^{\aleph_0}$ subgroups of index $2$ of $\oplus _{n\in \mathbb{N}}(\mathbb{Z}/2)$.
@user1729: thanks! for correcting a previous statement about the number of subgroups of finite index of a countable group -- it may well be uncountable!
The example of @seirios: is a finitely generated group having uncountably many subgroups. However, a finitely generated group has finitely many subgroups of a given index $n$. Indeed, one can reduce to normal subgroups ( the normal core has index $N \le n!$) and then notice that there are finitely many morphisms from the groups to the finitely many groups of order $N$. Thus a finitely generated group has countably many subgroups of finite index.
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1I do not understand how this answers the question. You have only shown that there are (finite or) countably many *finite-index, normal* subgroups of a *finitely generated* group (note: finitely generated, *not* countable, as mixedmath's answer demonstrates). Which is not awfully relevant... – user1729 Oct 14 '14 at 08:22
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Your now answer has some issues - not every $(b_n)\in\prod(\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z})$ corresponds to an element of the direct sum. This is because the direct sum contains only those elements with finite support (it is *not* the Cartesian product). Also, this is just a re-hashing of mixedmath's answer. If I were you, I would just delete everything above "The example of @seirios..." – user1729 Oct 17 '14 at 10:39
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@user1729: The kernel of the functional given by $(b_n)\ne (0)$ is a subgroup of index $2$. – orangeskid Oct 17 '14 at 11:29