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と after counting something and ~と多い here meaning?

The first link says that we can't use concrete numbers but it doesn't seem to be the case in the second link?

naruto
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Sante Kyaku
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1 Answers1

9

Yes these are different. There are (at least) three ways of using number + counter + と, and they have different nuances.

  1. concrete number + counter + と + adjective

    This is for showing a concrete figure before using an adjective like 大きい/短い/重い or a verb like 倍増した/減った/安定した. Probably this is a kind of quotative-と. The number/amount can be big, small, or neither.

    • 今回のオリンピックの開催期間は22日間と長かった。
    • アンケートの結果は「とても良い」が15.2%とかなり少なかった。
    • 部屋の温度は23℃と、暑くも寒くもなかった。
    • その商品の値段は1300円と、去年のほぼ2倍になった。
  2. abstract number (usually with 何) + counter + と + verb, abstract number + counter + という + noun

    This is used only when the number/amount is big. "no less than", "as much/many as", "millions/thousands/tons of ~", etc.

    • この橋の建設には何百億円とかかっている。
      = この橋の建設には何百億円という費用がかかっている。
    • 彼は兵士を何万人と率いていた。
      = 彼は何万人という兵士を率いていた。
  3. round number + counter + と + negative expression

    "(not) even", "no more than", etc. Used with some small round number and implies the actual number/amount is even smaller.

    • 1時間と歩かずに、その町に到着するでしょう。
    • 全部買っても500円とかからなかった。
    • 彼は非常に多弁であり、5分と黙っていられない。
naruto
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  • How would you call these usages if you had to refer to them? And do you have references? I have not found much on this subject –  Dec 08 '18 at 01:00
  • Me, neither. デジタル大辞泉 has a definition that corresponds to the third usage above. – naruto Dec 08 '18 at 01:05
  • I saw it, that's unfortunate –  Dec 08 '18 at 01:07
  • What do you mean by 'round number' here? – user26484 Dec 08 '18 at 08:25
  • @user26484 I thought it meant something not overly detailed/precise, such as 100 rather than 92, 50 rather than 49, etc. Perhaps I had to say "nice round number"? – naruto Dec 08 '18 at 08:56
  • @user26484 I can only explain round number with examples. "He finished in the top ten". You would rarely say "He finished in the top eight". "Over 1000 people took part in the race". You would rarely say "Over 1020 people ...". – user3856370 Dec 08 '18 at 08:57
  • I get that, but if we're following the actual definition I'm not sure single digits fall in this category. Hence my confusion. – user26484 Dec 09 '18 at 09:31
  • @user3856370 - I never thought this way but did the “round” in “round number” come from the shape of the sign 0? (I’m addressing this to you because I know you are still around.) – aguijonazo Oct 28 '22 at 03:09
  • @aguijonazo Never thought about it myself either. I'm afraid I'm a scientist, not a linguist. I'm doubtful that it's related though. For example, if I round up 6.7 I get 7. There are no circles there. Maybe you could try asking Eiríkr Útlendi on this site. He seems to be an etymology guru. – user3856370 Oct 28 '22 at 15:17