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With my Japanese teacher, we study some text about Doraemon.

未来{みらい}のいろいろな便利{べんり}な「ひみつ道具{どうぐ}」をポケットの中に持っている」

I was thinking いろいろな便利{べんり}な had to be いろいろで便利{べんり}な.

Eddie Kal
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TheGrintch
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2 Answers2

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Yes, two ordinary na-adjectives are connected with で:

  • きれいで清潔な部屋 (×きれいな清潔な部屋)
  • 親切で元気な人 (×親切な元気な人)

Nevertheless, I feel 色々な便利な道具 is far more natural than 色々で便利な道具. 便利で色々な道具 is okay but I feel this is still slightly odd.

I could not find an article which clearly explains why. But 色々 is unlike normal na-adjectives in some ways:

  • It works as an adverb without に. 「いろいろ勉強した。」「いろいろ教えてください。」 It even takes と.
  • Its attributive usage (i.e, modifying a following noun) is common, but its predicative usage is relatively uncommon and literary. We say 本棚に色々な本がある but 本棚にある本は色々だ sounds stiff. (If I understand correctly the English adjective various is not used predicatively, either. "×The books are various." I don't know if it's a coincidence.)
  • It has a lexicalized 連体詞 version, namely 色んな, which is frozen and never conjugates. (×色んだ is incorrect)

So perhaps you can think of this 色々 as a special case where 色々な is always used even when coupled with another adjective.

Eddie Kal
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naruto
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  • Do you really think きれいな清潔な部屋 and 親切な元気な人 are wrong? – user4092 Mar 31 '17 at 02:53
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    乱れた会話とか詩とかでないとは言いませんけど周辺的用法だと思うので、この段階ではとりあえず「間違い」でいいかなーと思いました。 – naruto Mar 31 '17 at 03:06
  • Am I wrong to think that when i'm using な to connect the adjectives, one is modifying the next, and then when i'm using で i'm rather saying "adjective1 and adjective2"? – Felipe Chaves de Oliveira Mar 31 '17 at 03:13
  • @FelipeOliveira Do you have an example? 単純に最低な映画 is "simply the worst movie", but 単純な最低な映画 is a nonstandard/broken way to say "simple and the worst movie." – naruto Mar 31 '17 at 03:20
  • ＠naruto when I stop to think about it I feel so weird about a na adjective modifying another one like "静かな猫" a cat who is quiet. "静かな嬉しい" A happye which is quiet??? So it would make much more sense "静かで嬉しい" Queit and happy, wouldn't it? Can you think of an example where an adjective (not an adverb) modifies another adjective in english? – Felipe Chaves de Oliveira Mar 31 '17 at 13:01
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When you're addressing a quality to a noun you use the adjective own particular rule:

NA adjective : place な after the adjective and then the word I adjective: just place the word after the adjective

IE:

静かな人(shizuka na hito) - Quiet Person.

嬉しい猫（ureshii neko) - Happy Cat.

You will use で for NA adjectives when you're connecting them to another clause, but not when you're trying to modify a noun. And then use the "te form" when you're doing it with I adjectives.

彼女は静かで変だね(kanojo wa shizuka de hen da ne) - She is quiet and weird, right.

彼女は優しくて、嬉しいね(kanojo ha yasashikute, ureshii ne) - She is gentle and happy, right.

いろいろな​便利 : いろいろ is a na adjective modifying 便利, therefore it needs な to connect them, meaning Many useful...

it's tricky because japanese has a lot of adjectives that are not really adjectives in english.

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Felipe Chaves de Oliveira
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    Yeah, I know that. But in the text we found "いろいろな便利な". It's an error ? (She took this in Genki). – TheGrintch Mar 30 '17 at 21:49
  • @TheGrintch edited the answer, the main point is that japanese has some adjectives that are not adjectives in english, for instance "I like you" the like in english is a verb, in japanese in a NA Adjective... and so on – Felipe Chaves de Oliveira Mar 30 '17 at 21:56